Hi,
I wanted to publicize a conversation I had with my friend in text about Christians.
My friend and I used to be Christian until recently this year. We have been slowly learning more and more about a life outside of this trap and i feel like we are not the only people out there questioning their beliefs. I don't mean to post this in offense to others who follow any religion, I just feel like if I was still on the fence or doubting my beliefs, seeing other ex christians talk openly about it might help me. I would love to hear from others with similar backgrounds as well.
THE CONVERSATION
Me: text me some good points you have found in your christianity research
Dan: Jesus was either everything he says he was or he was totally insane, the trouble is there is not much reason to he really was god so that leaves us with a probable madman. One of the most common delusions reported by the mentally ill is the god complex.
Dan: Worshiping the death of death of jesus is worshiping torture and human sacrifice plain and simple. the symbol of the cross might as well be a guillotine or a noose.
Dan: the whole idea that someone else can die for you and resolve you of your responsibilities to yourself and others is an extremely unethical and immoral belief. It's right up there with jihad and martyrdom.
Dan: (Scapegoatting)
Me: Anything a little more subtle? like big picture questions.
Dan: The Obvious: The bible condones slavery, torture, mass genocide, racism, mutilation, misogyny and all things considered to be good values can be found in any other religious text.
Dan: There are 2 parts to this debate. The first, is the origin of the universe and life, which is an interesting and worthwhile debate to have and god is a big part of the discussion. The second part is this silly idea that god answers prayers and cares what you eat or do with your genitals. that part is ridiculous and easy to argue.
Me: What would you say to a child to begin questioning things? Or what would you say to your sister for example?
Dan: That's a good question lol... I'd start by telling them that heaven and hell does not exist and there is no reason to believe they do. Right around that age when they find out about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. After all, they are just stories used to manipulate kids into behaving a certain way.
Dan: There is no hope for someone like my sister or 99% of adults like her.
Dan: Maybe a few people could be argued out of their worldview, but its not very likely.
Me: I asked a friend, is there any evidence that could cause you to not believe? and they said No.
Me: I mean.. wtf
Me: Their "faith" is just another word for denial. But people in denial can change, so maybe there is a chance?
Dan: That's how it goes. Even leading scientists in physics and biology are still believers despite what they know,
the evidence that they have seen. It's a serious problem, its why people can learn enough science to build a nuclear bomb and still believe that mohammad flew to heaven on a winged horse.
Dan: btw I found a charcoal grill we should get this weekend.
Dan: Reading your text again, your question about evidence will never work because their belief isn't based on any evidence in the first place. You could literally show them jesus's skeleton, carbon dated with dna and they would still believe either that he rose in spirit or that is was a trick of the devil. theres no way around this kind of thinking.
Me: It almost sounds like a mental disorder. But if someone can be made to believe something, surely they can be made to unbelieve...
Dan: if you are bored, look up stuff by sam harris, neuroscientist, on the nature of belief and states of the brain.
Me: Its just so obvious all religious text was written by humans because people choose what to follow in it and what not to follow. Also, if it was written by a god it would have no reason to include things that have no meaning in our current civilization.
Dan: Exactly, you see this in the koran as well. Heaven is described as a land of flowing milk and honey, perfect for an individual living in the pre midevil desert. This would be like a modern prophet describing heaven as a city gleaming with electricity wheer everyone drives a lexus. Its so obvious that it was written by humans limited to human knowledge at the time. the perfect god might have mentioned dna or the internet at least.
Me: I'm picturing God trying to explain blockchain to Marry and Joseph.
Dan: lol
Thanks,