Gokul Gopinathan
Software Developer at Triniti Advanced Software Labs (2015-present)
6w ago
Great question mate!!
But my doubt is, if goals are everything then why do teams have midfielders, defenders and goalkeepers in their squads? Why don't they build a team of 11 strikers. After all goals are everything, right??
Another question, a team scores 3 goals and all 3 scored by 3 different players but assisted by a single player, who would you consider to have had a better game, The goalscorers or the one who provided the assists?
I think I made it clear.
Quite clearly goals are important aspects of the game but they can never completely decide a game because apart from the time taken to score a goal a team will be having plenty of time left to play for(85+ minutes). That's where the other aspects of the game comes into picture. Defending, dribbling, controlling the tempo, saves and much more.
Now coming back to your point, Ronaldo is a great goalscorer and Messi is equally good if not better. But the difference is seen when they don't score, that's where these two can be compared. When Messi is unable to find spaces to score he dribbles and attracts defense so that his teammates can get a break through. He tries to control the pace of the game so as to dominate over their opponents even if they haven't scored. Ronaldo on the other hand is more like a number 9, a pure striker who waits for opportunities(a completely different player than what he used to be 3 or 4 years back) and gets benefitted from the counter attacking style of play that Real Madrid offers.
Goalscoring is something that's common in both of them yet football fans rate Messi above Ronaldo because of the additional things that Messi can offer his team which may not be as important as scoring but are important enough to decide a game.
As they say Messi is a complete package…
Picture credits : Facebook
Edit 1: Thank you for 200+ upvotes.
Atul Kumar
FC Barcelona supporter
9w ago
Actually, goals are everything when it comes to football. The sentiment used actually is that goals or mere stats without context aren't everything when it comes to comparing players.
The general belief that Ronaldo is a better goalscorer than Messi is also a myth.
Messi has a better goals per game ratio (0.80) than that of Ronaldo (0.72) over their careers. A general counter-point used here is that Ronaldo played in a tougher league for some part of his career. But since Ronaldo moved to La Liga, where they have had similar opponents, Messi's goals per game is 1.07 compared to Ronaldo's 1.02. Their head to head record in El Clasicos speaks for itself as well.
Messi takes more percentage of Barcelona's attempts to score a goal:
But he also creates more chances:
The narrative till now has been that Messi is helped by a superior team, but he actually beat the best Madrid team with the worst Barca side since Rijkaard. And even better if you actually watched that game. He scored more than Ronaldo that year playing as an attacking mid, while the man, Ronaldo, had the best Madrid side of all time with an army to feed him. Don't believe me? Take a look at Real Madrid’s chance matrix:
Coming to the underrated side of Messi's game, and sadly, football in general: playmaking.
Playmakers are valued more than goalscorers in football. Their influence isn't pronounced most of the time, but clubs, boards and managers know how important and rare they are. Generally, they are the ones who are the most expensive commodity in the transfer market, not goalscorers.
Since 2011, Messi has made himself into a goalscoring freak, but if I ask you to forget his 91 goals in 2012 or that he became the all time La Liga top scorer and top assist maker, and tell me where will he rank among the best midfielders, what is your answer going to be? “No way Messi is a midfielder,” or “anything to make Messi look better”?
But what about this:
It simply means that he has had better seasons as a playmaker while being a forward than those whose primary job was to take care of that. And don't forget to notice just how many times he appears here.
The reason that you've heard people saying that goals aren't everything as an argument is because Ronaldo is compared to Messi by that. If Neymar or Hazard had that big a fanbase, you'll hear all about dribbles. If Xavi or Kevin De Bruyne had that big a fanbase, it would've been all assists or playmaking. And what's crazier, Messi would have had a strong stand each time.
To sum it up, yes, goals actually are the focal point of everything in football, but football in itself extends far beyond. I have never seen anyone who goes to see a football match after checking WhoScored. Nobody will watch Paulinho over Iniesta in 2018 because the former has more goals. Nobody will spend money to watch Ciro Immobile or Benzema over Zidane because he has less goals or assists.
When it comes to Messi, he shouldn't be compared to anyone, not because of some screwed emotions, but because of the fact that if you are going to compare someone to him, that player should bring everything that Messi does to plate. Until such a player happens, Messi dines alone.
Affan Muddassir
BS Computer Science, National University of Sciences and Technology, Pakistan (2018)
9w ago
While it's true that goals win you matches, I'll tell you why I'm not a fan of statistics and why they're not a barometer to rate a player above another.
It's true that Cristiano Ronaldo is a better goalscorer than Messi is but have you ever wondered the change that has occured to the positions of the two players?
Ronaldo is playing further and further up the pitch and not getting involved in play that much while Messi is dropping deeper and deeper. Now it was a given that Ronaldo being Ronaldo and moving closer to the box would've definitely scored more goals but what about Messi?
Despite dropping much deeper on average than before, he's still scoring and assisting goals at an incredible ratio, making killer through passes etc. which is something I believe puts him above Ronaldo easily.
If you see him everyday, week in week out you'll see that statistics don't do justice to him as they tend to hide the magic, the runs, beating players for dead, creating jaw-dropping chances only to be missed by team mates etc. he displays several times in a single game (though not always) which affect his “decisiveness” as people claim.
Also, if goals were the barometer to rate a player above another, why isn't Gerd Muller considered the greatest player ever because of his incredible goals/games ratio but Diego Maradona is despite scoring much, much less goals?
Sandeep Singh
I live for football.
13w ago
Different positions have different demands.
As a forward, your main job is to score goals and make assists. Finish chances on your own and/ or if your partner is in a better position than you, tee him up by making a killer pass so that your partner can score.
As a midfielder, your job is to unlock defenses and create chances. This is where the actual battle happens. Send through-balls, make pre-assists and even assists. In a way, dictate the tempo of the game from the centre.
As a defender, your job is to prevent your opponents or the ball getting into your box. Get to the ball before your opponents do and clear it away. Make tackles and clearances and sometimes initiate counter attacks too.
Cristiano is a forward. Yes, he has played as a winger before at Manchester Utd and he was quite menacing in that role. But he is essentially a forward now and I must say he has performed his role to near perfection.
628 goals and 204 assists, i.e 832 direct contributions in 891 apps for club and country. He has delivered what was expected of him. Don’t judge him by just one off season in La Liga. He has been delivering his best performances since the last fifteen (15) years. How many players can say that?
Had he played as a forward in his early playing days, or had he played in the La Liga right from the beginning, his stats would have been much higher by now. He averages more than a goal per game in La Liga.
Shibashis Mukhopadhyay
1w ago
The logic is similar to any other art. It is indeed the singer whom we hear, but had the music composer not created the tune, the singer wouldn’t have anything to sing to.
Similarly, a goal is the final product of all the brain, art and hard work given in by a time.
Coming to the second point, in my personal opinion, Ronaldo is a better sportsperson than Messi. He has a sharper execution, is stronger and hence scores more goals. With these qualities he would have excelled in many other sports ( probably). However, Messi is specific to football and both of him and the game are incomplete without each other. He is an artist with the ball, not merely an athlete. Considering all these, there is no reason to rate Ronaldo above Messi just because he scores more goals.
Soumyadip Chakraborty
works at Students
9w ago
Goals are not everything in football.
For instance, do you analyze Ronaldinho or Xavi on the basis of no. of goals scored? Can you amass the greatness of Maradona or Zidane on the amount of goals? No.
Of course goals win you matches. But it has been proven that goals galore along with a leaky defence takes you nowhere. Remember 1982 World Cup? Italy went on to become the champions after scoring a mere 12 goals in the entire competition. How? Because they had a sturdy defence.
Now let’s come to Messi and Roanldo. Take a look at this…
This is the heat map of the two players of 2016–17 season. As you can see, Messi played more as an attacking midfielder, while Ronaldo was deployed as a typical No. 9 Striker. Even after that, Ronaldo managed to score just 1 goal more than Messi in Champions League. Messi outscored him in La Liga by a margin of more than 10 goals, outscored him for the overall season, and ultimately won the European Golden Shoe, all of this by playing as a midfielder.
Hence you can surely never judge the greatness of Messi in terms of goals. He starts the buildup of a Barcelona move, makes that defence-splitting pass, assists his partners, and scores as many (maybe more) goals as his competitors !
Youness Bourgui
7w ago
Only goals are important in a match, therefore, Modric, Kroos, Marcelo, Isco are bad players because they don't score that many goals.
It is a crime to dribble or create chance in a match because they are useless. Therefore, Isco, Modric, Marcelo etc. Who happen to be good dribblers and creators are useless. They only dribble the whole park and create 9999999 useless chances without scoring a lot of goals. All of them should go and stay in the box and wait for Navas to lob the ball in the penalty box so they can compete for tap ins.
Zidane, Xavi, Ronaldinho, Puyol, Casillas, Totti, Pirlo shouldn't be considered as greats because they didn't score many tapins.
Anirban Roy
Been watching football since 2004
14w ago
Okay. I have seen a number of people arguing on this lately on facebook.
How would you compare individual brilliance? Only goals? Yes I can agree on the fact goals can win you matches. But if you are comparing two personalities individually you have to consider their every characteristics. And the question on why people rate Messi above. Simple.
Messi is significant better passer than Ronaldo.
Messi is undoubtedly a better dribbler.
Messi can anticipate the game better than any footballer currently.
Messi's last season heatmap shows us that he has played as an advanced att