When an anarchist says murder, theft, and coercion are immoral regardless of who you are, statist often respond by saying that those ideas are utopian, impractical, and extreme. What they really mean to say is that they don't think civilization or any services provided by society could exist without somebody holding a gun to your head, but there is nothing civil about holding a gun to somebody's head to get what you want, in fact it is the opposite of civil.