Hello Steemians !
SO ! First real post of the year !
I had the chance to chat a bit with a wonderful and committed Steemit Artist who worked on awesome and diverse projects such as HEX TCG but also renowned trading card games such as World of Warcraft. Really engaged to the community here on Steemit, maybe have you stumbled across his raffles contest or even got the chance to obtain one of his kickass paintings. Without further ado, here is the script of our little chat with Beekart, I hope you will enjoy it and learn new things as I did during this awesome experience !!
Hello Beekart, Thank you for accepting my invitation to this experiment. After browsing on your website I noticed that you worked on some exciting projects such as Rise of Champions or TCG World of Warcraft ! That’s awesome ! Though I haven’t seen them on Steemit ?
Yes, it is because these are really old, these are ones of the firsts jobs I actually landed as a freelance artist, to do some cards for the TCG World Of Warcraft. It’s insane ! It’s a dream, I always thought I wanna do some stuff for World of Warcraft and all of a sudden it’s like “Hey ! Do you wanna do some cards for World Of Warcraft ?” -What the Hell ?!
At the beginning of your career you said ??
Yeah ! if you haven’t read my introduction post yet (I rewrote it). I explain everything there.
I was first working at Cisco as a ***** engineer. I didn’t draw or paint anything but in 2008 with the financial crisis the workload went to zero and it was just "go to work and do nothing" pretty much. Just sit there at my computer and play video-games, World of Warcraft, and at some point I was like, ok maybe I could just paint and do some drawings because I found these were pretty cool. After I tried to google who were the people then who were making these awesome drawings in the video-game.
Then I found out that they were actually a bunch of people who were doing it as a career and I found a forum that displayed people trying to get better at it and where you could look at their sketchbooks and see them starting off, pretty much *doing stickmen drawings, (total shit you know), and after practice and practice and practice, and they document, and at the end of the forum thread they say “Hey guys I got hired by Blizzard”.
This is insane you know ! The guy basically teached this skill himself. So I started to do that and try to get better and learn things and just draw a lot. I just found out I could pretty much do it all day without getting bored so it was a big plus and because I had anything to do at my work I could just go to work and draw all day and pretty much get paid for it so that was very nice.
Later on I tried to go to an art school here in the Netherlands. I think it was like Game Art. But I got rejected because I wasn’t creative enough. And I remember that was really cool that they had this introduction day where you had to go there and you had a bunch of tests and you had to give your motivation why you want to be in the school and blablabla, it’s like a very select way of whom could get into the school. And I remember I was sitting there in the grass during lunch break and one just came up with “Who do you guys wanna work for at some point ? And everyone is like yeah I wanna work for blizzard, everybody’s the same at that. I didn’t get onto the school you know, I got rejected. And I think, 7 or 8 month later, I made one of my first World of Warcraft cards. And those people were still in the school. So it was kinda like the irony haha…
Wow. It means you must have put a lot of practice..
Yeah, When I started drawing I think up to like…. 14 years ago or so, I think I’ve been drawing 8 years and a half so far. For the first 4 and a half years I think I drew not less than 10 hours a day. Just like everyday working working working. And it’s absolutely insane, I just enjoyed it so much, and I also do that because if I failed at it, if I didn’t make it as an artist, I had to go back into IT. And do computer bullshit again. And I didn’t wanted to do that at all so it was good motivation, try to not fail at it.
"For the first 4 and a half years I think I drew not less than 10 hours a day."
Okay. So I think you already answered most of my questions haha. So With this interview what I basically want to do is to learn and share a bit more about your work and your journey for younger artists out there looking to follow your path and help them get started.
First of all, when you go to parties or meet with people (if you do haha), when someone asks you “what do you do”, what’s your answer ?
Ehm…. I sit at home in my underwear and I draw. Haha, I usually say I am an illustrator or I say I am a concept artist and then as soon as you say concept artist, they look at you weirdly like they have no idea what that is, and then I just try to say like : I draw and design things for films and videogames. And then they already go like eeehmmkaay and then you must explain a little more, say like well, every character and every environment in a movie, every set, everything has to be designed, has to be thought of, officialized before it’s made right ? And they go yeah yeah. Well, That’s what I do, I try to come up with how a house style should look, that’s pretty much my thing. And then they go “oh okok that’s really cool”. And then I say well I sit at home in my underwear. And usually they get so weird about that they just move along.
What do YOU say to people ?
Hahaha what do I say ? -Yeah, you go somewhere you have to put up some clothes !
-Alcy : Well I draw Mickey Mouses for a living, I don’t say I draw in my underwear for a living as at work it might be a bit weird...But yeah I say I draw for video games, mobile games. But I try to say it in vietnamese, which is kind of funny. But usually when you say you work for videogames, people look at you as kind of a kid who never grew up and so they move along saying oh yeah cool... haha
-Beek : Yeah usually people go with a very questionable face like “And you can make a living with that ?” And then you just like with a poker face “well ehm. The video game market is almost twice as big as the movie industry right now.” And everybody “UUUUHH??!”.
And all these character must come from somewhere right ?
Yeah and people can do it, it’s like a specialist job. And the pay most of the time is pretty good and sometimes I’m shocked, is what some people make in the indie game industry.. Most of the time it’s a very specialist kind of thing, so wage is specially quite good. Especially if you get a little bit of a name, it helps. And the budgets in the art departments are where all the new techniques for a demanding audience and their products are getting better and better and better. And how do you do that, you have to hire an artist. So it’s gonna be better I think. Even better.
As you say it’s a very specialized job based on skills and not really on diplomas.
True, I remember when I started out, and I wanted to make it into my career, I know my dad who knows nothing about video games, always was like “oh you must go to school you know”. Well, it doesn’t matter they’re [Human Resources/Clients ndlr] only going to look at my portfolio. “At some point you’ll try to get a real job”. There’s a lot of parents that think that their kids just don’t know what they’re getting into.
If you just say that you want to be a cameraman and be working on movies, then parents already goes like yeah it’s really cool, you do that haha. But when you say “I wanna be a scene designer for video games” “well yeah… get a real job”.
Haha yes… When you say your dad told you about looking for a real job and parents thinking this way usually…. Were your parents supportive in general ? After you explained them what it was about ? Or did they kept their stance for a while ?
Well… My mom was always supportive, she was like, well, my parents are divorced so at the time I was sleeping at my mom’s and she clearly saw that I was unhappy at the job where I was in IT. And when I quit my job and focused only on drawing and painting she just thought that I was more happy. So she was always supportive of that. She saw I was getting better at it and thought sure you can do this.
My dad on the other hand, was like I was giving away a job, IT pays a lot of money right ? I think I was like 21 or 22 something when I got the job and I was making almost 40k a year. An insane amount of money. Especially at that age. And my dad was like “What are you doing??” Going to waste such a perfect job ! I was like yeah I hated it here. I really don’t like my job I don’t want to do this. For him it was kind of a mistake. So it turned around when I began freelancing. And I started to land a few jobs and then he saw what I was doing and how it was getting better, and then at some point it just changed, and now I think he’s really proud.
You said it was thanks to the crisis that you began drawing but was there a trigger for you to take art seriously and make a living out of it ?
Well it was a consequence of the crisis and me being really bored at my work. Like I said I was just sitting there playing videogames all day. Nothing to do. And then since I was playing world of warcraft, they go through these loading screens where they are like drawn, with these pencil artworks and I was like yeah it’s really cool. And for some reason that day I decided to just google who were these people who make it. And I found out and then I started drawing more and more and you know when iInoticed I could just do it all day, I just thought okay I am gonna be an artist y’know.
It wasn’t like that, it was more, everyday when I got to work, i’m gonna draw instead of playing videogames and then that sorta grew up until I noticed I was just going to work, draw all day, go home, draw more I thought ok I’m really enjoying this, I should become an artist, take this stuff more seriously. To make it more into a study.
Okay, when you begun to think about making it as a living, did you know how to begin with art (like what kind of different jobs there are, or where to find the informations ?) What was your knowledge at the time ?
I had none to be honest I had no idea what it was like to be a freelance artist. I wasn’t formed so I didn’t know if there was people doing freelance. I knew concept art was a thing and at some point, I needed some work. I need money too.
My account was beginning to become empty. So I decided I was gonna be a freelance concept artist so I begun to call myself a freelance concept artist. And then, before I actually started to really look for work. I guess it’s just about being a bit lucky I guess, as before I actually started to look for work, companies began to reach to me. So I was like I gotta build a portfolio. to get some work. So I started along to do these images. Like World of Warcraft and a bunch of other stuff and because I did those images apparently they found me. They just emailed me like “Hey, Are you interested in doing it a bit ?” And I said yeah. So when I begun to look for work they just came to me, that helps a lot (lol).
"If anything, you need your own website."
And you are showcasing your work on what kind of platforms ? As Artstation wasn’t a thing back then..
Yeah no Artstation. Deviant Art was the thing, I do get a lot of notes and stuff like that on it today but I guess I get anything good from it from there. CGHub was a thing back then and ConceptArt.org. these were pretty much the places. And of course my own website. If anything, you need your own website. Everybody’s saying you need an Artstation blablabla I never landed any work from it except one time maybe. You need your own website.
Think as a client, I’m a client, I’m looking for an artist. For some reason I find you through Artstation. I’m like yeah this is really cool. And somehow I misclick. And then I’m at some other artist who’s better than you. I’ve already forgotten about you. I’m already on this guy even better. And now you click again, and you find a guy even better, and then again, even better and now you are like 2 artists away. It goes so fast, there is so many great artists there, even if the client is interested in your stuff there is small chance he will actually email you hence give you a job. I think that with your own website, he can only look at your work and he can hopefully see the cool stuff going on there and just a larger chance that he takes that step to email you. While on Artstation it’s too easy to find someone else that’s better.
Interesting, but what about visibility, I guess your websites has less than Artstation so how do you drive the clients to it ?
Lol, I dunno, I just made a website, I don’t even have tags and stuff, I have no idea how they find me, I ask sometimes, even they don’t even know, I don’t know haha I haven’t taken any active steps to get more people to my website.
Okay, I always thought if you made a website you must use SEO, referencing, tagging…
Well yeah, as soon as you use your website in your tags like info@beekart.com, I guess that also helps, also you have some cards you can give away to people.I guess it just goes around, if you post something somewhere, your website’s on there, on deviant art, artstation, facebook page,blablabla…
I think a lot of people are limited in a sense that they put a title on themselves saying ‘I’m a game artist’ or ‘I’m a game concept artist” when everything in this world is designed so do you really want to limit yourself to just doing games ? If you can draw and come up with something as a design , it can be used anywhere, even to design a watch or design a microwave. Or a living room or whatever. I think you can do a lot more with just the knowledge of being an artist and how to design stuff. If you are only on Artstation you might only get jobs for movies and games.
I agree with you it is very interesting also to see some kind of a shift it seems in the industry as we begin to see more and more artists getting hired at Boston Dynamics, Tesla or Nasa; So yeah if you are a good artist you can basically work everywhere.
I think so yes, and with the internet, everybody can find you basically. It’s also like you can learn everything. You have these artists hired to work for a company that is making a world war 2 game and then they just go nuts on researching on the tanks and airplanes and guns and whatever that was used in the time. And after a year or two years they become WWII experts about machines whatever you know. It’s insane what you can find on the internet and you don’t have to go to school for years and years. You can find all the knowledge out there. So that’s good.
And it’s kind of a way to self education as you learn what you need and not more or less than that.
Exactly, and you have the artskills to apply what you have learned in a way that everyone can understand it.
What motivated you for going freelance instead of in-house (within a company studio)?
I think it’s where I live there is not really any studios, so it was better for me to just go freelance because I have way more options to do all kind of works I always wanted to do. Because in the Netherlands there is no many studios so most of the studios are very small and the few big ones only take on highly experienced artists and if you are not an experienced artist then you get an internship but to get an internship you have to attend a school and I was none of that.
So I was either freelancing or nothing. And then I got into it and I really enjoyed. No problems to kick myself out of bed everyday. It is very easy for me to be disciplined, to just be working. I think a lot of people struggle with that. Luckily I don’t have that. And it’s also really nice that if you work really hard you got paid more most of the time. Where as normally when you’re in-house and it’s crunch-time and everybody is making insane hours at the end of the month you get the same salary. I don’t like that. Most of the time I can’t really handle people with authority.
Can you share with us an important moment in your career that really helped you? Something that happened to you or something you did which shifted it for the better ?
Well… Most of the time when someone tells I can’t do something that I get angry about it, sort of, not at the person but in general. Then that helps me a lot to get fuel. For exemple when I got rejected from the school and they were like “you’re not creative enough, we don’t want you in the school” that’s like the moment when instead of 10 hours I go drawing for 14 hours. I was like "aw fuck screw you guys" I’ll prove you I can do it.
Same happened… It wasn’t really a study but was kinda like a local art group sort of.. And it was that one guy who was like russian painter and he was like very much about anatomy and stuff and he was always about anatomy anatomy anatomy. He’s really good at it too so he really knew everything but then at some point I don’t know why but he was making fun of me because I was also focused on anatomy because it was needed in my work. And well at some point he was like, if you keep drawing like this (I was very much into mages and forests and stuff like this), you will never make it like that. I think he had in mind I was going to be a traditional artist and I had no intention to do that. And my dad also was something like that, triggered me to work really harder.
So everytime that happens, when people tell me I can’t do something, that’s pretty much the moment that I work harder.
So I want to switch a bit on the platform quickly,
What do you use Steemit for ? Why this platform instead of another one (Like Patreon for exemple) ?
I think you feel a bit responsible for these people in a way that they’re giving you money and you have to deliver. And because of my workload, I don’t feel I need the extra money and it will only give me more stress like oh well these people paid and I haven’t drew anything you know.
While Steemit allows you more freedom. I can post whenever I want, I can invest into it as much as I want and compared as a place like FB or something, people on Steemit are much more engaging and they seem to be way more supportive. They tell you if they like something. Try to engage. And actually sort of become in a way, friends you know, whereas on Facebook, it’s superficial, you tend to post one of your best artworks or whatever you put your ass off on it and you get like….3 likes you know. You’re like… What the hell ? And you know some people will like it but they don’t even get to see it ! It’s completely useless. It used to be pretty good but nowadays FB is absolute crap.
There are many new young artists and students here on Steemit (it seems the community is growing pretty strong), and I know you are an active member of Steemit, so I would like to get a bit more specific for these readers.
When you comment on other artists work, what kind of feedbacks do you tend to give most whether here on Steemit or other Social Media platforms ?
On Steemit I haven’t given much feedbacks, I feel like most of people are just showing what they did, they’re not really asking. Maybe when it’s really obvious I tend to point these sometimes, like the anatomy is off, or some simple things, the composition, I sometimes point that out. If you really want feedbacks from me you should just ask me directly or if I make a post or something and you did something with the post let’s get better thing. If people want feedback they should just like “Hey, I did this exercise, can you take a look at it ?” I’m always willing to help out.
For those young artists, what resource (book, website, or else) would you recommend to them that can help them make a difference on the market ?
That would be my advice for people looking to get better : “Take a look at artstation maybe once a month…. that’s it.” Sometimes it’s like a pixie contest. You have this whole phase of people doing robot faced dudes. Then like, at some point, some of the artists were so sick of it that they created Mr. Concept Art. That was like the middle finger to all of these people. Because he was like grabbing a photo from the Internet and put nearly a photo of a toaster on top of it and then photoshop effects, some Noise and that distortion thing and that was it because that was like a whole period of everyone who could do 3D or photoshop they would do a robot face on top of a human body.
So don’t look at Artstation too much, focus on your own stuff, if you want to be a 3D artist...I don’t know anything about 3D but about the craft itself, the more freedom you have, the better you become, the better you get at painting and drawing, and all the technical and theoretical stuff about making art, the more freedom you have to create. And you can do whatever comes up in your mind because focusing on the craft itself and be able to draw and paint gives you the necessary freedom to create.
Also Artstation intimidates you, you get some sort of a pressure that you should also be at that level, you should also be doing that sort of style when really, you don’t have to haha. There is no reason why you should do 3D robots. You shouldn’t be intimidated by also young artists (17-20…).
I started when I was 23, I am now 31(I'm old) and when I meet these people on IFCC, and check their portfolios, sometimes you just look at it and it's like 'Hey it's really cool! How old are you ?""Oh I'm 21" "..." But also at times to be really honest, when I see a lot of these portfolios from young artists, you see them doing what artstation is doing. Like everything that is trending on Artstation you can see that in portfolios. It's so disappointing to see. Because you want to see new shit, you wanna see something new. This guy has to be drawing not for long but he should not been so influenced by the industry that they have been doing it for years and now there's a new person coming doing the same shit again. It's so boring, I can look at Artstation and not be thrilled... It's still the same ok bye.
Yup exactly. And it will also be even more difficult to get hired and make your stance among everyone else as you will be no different.
Yep And the cool thing is, If you manage to stick to your own shit long enough, people will start copying your shit. And then you're the one who came up with this. And suddenly you're the coolest guy in town haha.
If you could name one artist to follow, who would that be and for what reason ?
Okay, it would be super cliché but I would follow a guy like Jaime Jones or Craig Mullins. Why ? you just need to look at one of their picture to understand....
The guy is so insane. The colors, the light, the edges, the use of details... There's a mountain covered in trees in the background but as soon as you put your face to look at it it's just a block, it's just suggested. It's what you need. All there and nothing more... That's an artist that does fancy shit. And he's a concept artist. I wanna be like that. In a way sort of. I don't wanna be him but I want my work to be like that. That sort of suggestion of detail but not actually having to go and paint everything because I hate rendering and I'm seriously way too lazy to even zoom in a painting and polish everything. Most of the time it's like "yeah well."
Hahaha I feel you man.... But isn't it quite paradoxical ? Your art is pretty sharp and well rendered usually (from my POV at least). It seems you put a lot of time in this.
No not really... I used to spend a lot time usually but nowadays if I have to spend a whole day on one image it's just like…raaah. Most of the time it's just like an hour, two hours, three hours, that's it.
1 to 3 hours ?? It's almost speed paintings !"
Yes almost SP. If you pick this one for exemple :
that took about 3 hours.. Most of the time I try to not work a lot on these because I get bored quickly. Because I try to...Like J.Jones is doing, try not to put too much detail in it, only suggest it. But 4 years ago I wouldn't have been able to put it that way. It's knowledge out of experience I know that if I do shapes in a certain way, then it will look like bushes, if I put trees like that, then I know it will look like a tree, so I don't actually have to do it, just have to suggest that it is there.
Yes, This technique is pretty familiar to traditional artists so do you create tradi art sometimes or have you done some in the past ?
I used to when I still lived at home, in my attic there was some room but since I moved, I had to quit tradi art because there's no room here and you need to set up the easel and paint.
Imagine you can go back in time, when you are deciding to go freelance, with your actual knowledge. What will be the first 3 actionable steps you will take to get your first 3 clients ? How do you retain (keep contact with) them after delivering ?
Well, one thing you have to do, is to be active, in general, you have to create an online presence. So you have to try to set up your social media accounts and put the work in, to almost post something daily, like daily sketches on instagram or something. Daily things on FB to share. Whatever, Steemit maybe. Try to work on your portfolio, try to aim your portfolio at what you like doing. And not what everybody else is doing. Like if you really love painting robots but with human bodies...Do that. Try to market your portfolio, if you want to work for yourself, try to pick projects or game studios that you want to work for and try to make a portfolio that is aimed at that game studio. And you just have to work your ass off really.
That's the thing. You have to be willing to do all the studies, all the work to get better because, if you're not doing it, somebody else is doing it and he will catch up. That's pretty much it. You have to be active, and seriously be active showing everybody you're working your ass off. That's also motivation for everyone else to see and also good sign you're giving off to potential clients that you're improving and willing to put the effort. Also the more consistent you are the more eyeball you get. And the more eyeball you get, the more chances someone will be willing to give money for your art. Whether it is private commission, whether it is someone who has a project going on, whatever. So more eyeballs the better. You gonna try to stand out.
Plus it's our first job, at some point you don't have to do that anymore because you'll probably have a name for yourself or you'll have a client you can rely on... But most of the time, mostly when you're just beginning, nobody knows you. And then it's a better way to make a name for yourself. " Oh that's the guy who works so hard" "Oh I see this guy in my feed everyday" Everyday there's a new painting or a new study or whatever. You gotta try to stand out.
Ok, but how do you follow up with the client after your first delivery ?
Oh.. You can make some excuses I guess, like you did art for a card game. For some reason you can't work on the next set for whatever reason. A few weeks or months later you just email them like "Hey Do you know if the card is released ? Can I post it on Instagram, social medias ... ?" Or how's the project is going or whatever ? And then as soon as they respond you say "Well i have some time so if you need anything, just let me know" And most of the time people are well uhm, actually, this part... or next time they will think of you...But you just have to Ask.
But I guess early on I was shitty with authority and stuff but that also means that I have sort of I don't feel.... That I see at IFCC a lot, where people are like ooooh that's Marko Djurdjevic, ooooh that's that dude =O haha whatever it's just a dude ! Who gives a shit, he's like you and me right. And maybe you're not as good at drawing as that guy but you're way better at cooking haha, It's not big deal ! =D And most artists are nice, everybody knows the trouble. They've all been there.
While you are there, If you had to give 3 advices to your 15 years-old you, what would they be ?
Mmmh Don't do Drugs ! (take it easy =D) I think the 15 year old me wouldn't listen to me but I guess if you want to achieve something then you can do it ! That sounds super cliché but whatever it is you just have to work really hard. That's the thing I found out.
Sorry I go back earlier in the interview but you said you were drawing up to 14 hours a day. to do that you must really be passionate about your craft but where does that love comes from, were you drawing before IT ?
I guess it was always there as long as I remember, Looking back at my school time, I was always the best at drawing in the class. I was always noodling on paper, but I never draw horses or stuff like that. I was always scribbling. I had something but I never actually took the time to draw something that was pretty. But yeah, looking back I guess it was always there but I didn't actually draw or actually knew that I liked it so much. Only until I actually tried to put some efforts into it. I think you can find passion whenever you want. I think there are so many people that live their entire life not knowing if they really like something or if they're really good at it. You just have to try it out (to see if you like or dislike).
Where can we connect with you ?
Steemit and Youtube are the places where I put the most effort
One last question : Can you give the readers one small easy exercise to improve their game they could post down below in the comments (or on your profile)?
Have you ever heard of Blind contours ?
The one you show in your Negativity space video?
Yes that one, this exercise is freaking brilliant man, you get so much better at that. Just be doing that. And if anything, it helps you on so many levels that you are not even aware of...Freakin brilliant.
So Blind contours is...You take a picture of a naked man or woman I guess that's the best way to do it, I know that's fairly hard but let's take a naked dude or naked woman from posemaniac or something like that. And then you just make a negative space drawing of that image, so you draw the outside but you try to be as tedious as possible. And best way to do it is even like not lift your pen off the paper, just do it in one go and once you have the contour, the outside, then you can filling it in. If she or he has a hand on her-his hat then there is a space between her head and her elbow, that's a negative space and you can start filling that in as good as you can. But the most brilliant thing is that when you do that for awhile, you get so good at it that at some point, you start your line and you end up exactly at the same point where you started. And then you know you started to get a lot better cuz the first few times your contours look like shit.
When I was doing this a lot, at some point I could actually do it blended, so I could just look at my screen and start drawing and 30-40 sec later I just look at my paper again because I was there at the beginning again and I look down and I just did it in one line and I came back at my starting point . You know just how much better you can get at something sort of so simple yet so complicated in a very short amount of time. You can do this maybe a few weeks, if you do a few pieces (like 4 or 5, every angle possible) every day, for a few weeks, the amount is insane ! And it will motivate you so much that you will work your ass off for the rest of your life.
It helps you so much, because as soon as you see your own character, you begin to see proportions, you just know something is off, maybe it's the leg or something and you get way more critical on your own work. It's so good ! I can't recommend it enough because it's the best haha.
Thank you so much @Beekart, it was a pleasure having you here ! Hope to see you around and wish you good luck for your actual and upcoming projects !
I hope you liked this interview and hopefully learned a thing or two !! Please feel free to give feedbacks so I can improve the format !
Also if you like interviews like that please tell me in the comments =)
Have a wonderful day Steemians ! Cheers !
