Discussion from roughly 20:00-49:00
After I recapitulate the main points, I am going to try to fill in some of connections that they passed over in trying to figure out the mental space of many of Trump's admirers, and maybe tie a bow on it:
Statements:
- (David Roth) Trump's Loyalty: Requires people be utterly loyal to him, to extreme extents, namely his social/class inferiors must do so [example: Trump's employee missing daughter's wedding].
- (Matt Christman) What these people think they have in common with Trump is the desire for customer service: the customer is always right [Trump is Yelper-in-chief]. Footballers kneeling is annoying to the customer.
- (Amber A'Lee Frost) This is the ideology of the suburbs - only type of interactions one needs (no public space). "Can I speak to your manager!?" if any disrespect from what customer wants.
- (David) Trump will not compromise on Football kneelers - bad customer service (to him and his followers). This is why they refuse to care about e.g. BLM issues. "Tunnel Vision": they can throw anyone under the bus to this ideology.
- (Will Menaker) Noah's Ark Vision: This is the club of customer service ideology - superior people, they'll throw others under the bus to be placed at the top of the respect hierarchy.
- (David+Will) Hard to realize so many people think Trump is admirable.
- (Amber+Felix Biederman) These people are riding mower dads, the more successful Boomers, who think they are not getting the respect they deserve. They care about how well they care of customers, stakeholders, lawn.
- (David) It helps that these people do not care about politics in the sense that what happens does not affect them - they don't have to care who get thrown under the bus.
- (Will) Other people who admire Trump - evangelical Christians. They are fine with trashing the world under Trump because they are end-timers.
- (Felix+Will) They are earth's customers, can take what they want because God will make a new one soon.
- (Amber) Poor evangelicals believe this as their lives are so miserable - can't imagine a better world now, so they want a new world.
- (Felix+Amber) Poor + rich ones believe the same ideology (American Dream). Harsh American Protestantism: Don't need clergy - it's all between you and God. The rich ones are those in charge and are flattered by preachers, while the poor take seminars on being better.
- (David++Amber) Market incentives have corroded theology into now: these mega churches are LinkedIn.
- (Matt+Amber) Fusion of religion and commerce turned into narcissism: God gives us this
- (Felix) Witch Trials are the world's first HOA: Small business tyrants in action.
- (Will+all) Says that the current time is the best version of conservatism + Trump is the perfect leader (though they have to project lots of beliefs onto him [e.g. Reaganism]).
- (David+Matt) And Trump's goodness is proved by that he has a lot of money (no matter how he got it) even though he's a dolt.
This is interesting. But I will take issue with 13) - I think there is no mystery here. Market forces = the protestant religious ideology using the other pieces above. It's not a degeneration. After all, the origin of American Protestantism in 12) led to the idea that without a pope or priest, one needs a sign that one is doing good (being "chosen" by God) - and here that sign is money: being rich is a sign of being holy. Customer service = what charitable works used to be in Catholicism, and that you are good at them is signified by having money from your service. So it's no oddity that churches have become essentially a LinkedIn service, and that those churches do not do traditional charitable works (see Joel Osteen & Houston floods) - they do good by sending out good little businessmen into the world to do customer service. So the evangelicals and the supposedly agnostic boomer Trump loyalists are more alike than they believe: their customer service is what makes them good and worthy of respect (and superior). The end times belief I guess is mostly an escape valve for the fact that capitalism makes so many losers (heaven!) and that the earth is being used up at to a frightening pace under this cramped view of religion/society = the sum of all local business transactions (new earth soon! so don't you fret). Republicans want to privatize everything so that the whole world fit into their grand moral accounting system.
Many problems that these folks cannot handle - lots of moral questions outside of their system:
- That Trump is moral train wreck, heir, and grifter is concealed by his riches (sign from God of being chosen). People do awful things to get money. The rich deserve to rule as they are the most holy - boy that has not panned out.
- Can't handle actual charitable works: no worthiness sign handed out (maybe they just think charity is just bad customer service in the long run?).
- Could be why socialism drives them bonkers - it effectively destroys their religious system of morality and worth.
- As Amber said in 3), there is no public space, so how to deal with BLM-like problems that do not involve money (in part)? When do people get to protest so that they can be heard? Can't do it in any private transaction.
That is all. The discussion was very useful to me, plus so many good jokes before, during and after. Excellent episode.