Greetings,
I have to disagree dercoco; they're not romantic at all, I also understand and know people from permaculture and I would like to believe it's possible; btw ,what's a realistic conversation? I don't find very useful when I dismiss any brainstorm about solutions just because I only see problems... "Things like" solutions are romantic, given the people we have to deal with everyday but that doesn't make them less real (both the solutions and the people), therefore to have a realistic conversation you have to acknowledge all aspects of reality, even those you can't grasp quite yet.