Hi guys! I am Inotia King a youtuber, redditor and gamer who likes theorizing about the story. I actually cobbled together a list of some of my more important theories with respect to the game Genshin Impact and Star Rail that I have been basing all of my newer theories on. I'll be putting more of those up on Hive along with new stuff but if you're impatient I also archived all my theories here. I hope some of you guys are game theorists too. Let's try to figure out these great games together!

It's nice to put faces and names to the shining shades but wow that anime short messed up the previously existing lore. But at this point what else do we expect from the new dev team?

There's only two parts to this topic. This first one will talk about what parts of the lore were ignored or undermined by the video and the second will be how they could possibly mitigate the damage.

The first and very obvious issue is this line from all the way back when the game released: "维系者正在死去" This was translated inaccurately in English because 维系者 was called "keeper." However the term itself is part of "Asmoday's" title of Sustainer of Heavenly Principles 天理的维系者. Also 正在死去 was translated as "fading away" probably to sound more elegant but it literally means "in the process of dying." Asmoday is dying.

By virtue of this sentence alone, it doesn't make sense for Asmoday to be missing while her supposed sisters are totally unaware of what's befallen her. They were shown to have been together for the Cataclysm and had knowledge of her attack on Aether and Lumine. (even Rhinedottir is aware of her attack) As the Cataclysm would have been when she'd sustained her mortal injuries, there is no chance that the other shades wouldn't know this therefore no reason for them to speculate that she'd "switched sides." Her title itself also makes this speculation wildly implausible.

The other issue of course is that her title would necessarily extend to all of the other shades making all four of them "sustainers." However in the existing lore for Istaroth and even Ronova through Natlan neither was ever called nor even hinted at being a sustainer for the principles. This oversight has led some to suggest that Ronova is the most loyal of the shades when again only Asmoday has ever deemed herself the sustainer for the rules. In fact-

Let's talk about Istaroth's previous lore. Thanks to the new video we're left with three loyal shades attending a meeting to discuss Asmoday possibly going rogue. However if we look back at lore from Enkanomiya we already had a rogue shade. Istaroth was the rogue shade. During the war against the Second Who Came Phanes sank Enkanomiya underwater. Of the four shades only Istaroth went to save them and give them some shred of hope. This was not done on a whim. She spent a long enough time with them to help them create the Hyperion that protected them against both the Abyss and the fallen dragons. Their survival is a direct affront to the Heavenly Principles such that much later on when Orobashi allowed them back to the surface he was ordered to die while also having the Enkanomiyans to leave their history down in the depths. That history was the Byakuyakoku Collection which among other things serves as a record of Istaroth's actions. And if that wasn't enough, Istaroth is also the higher power that allowed Makoto to become the Sacred Sakura which saved Inazuma. And as she became that Sacred Sakura Makoto said this: "The Sacred Sakura blooms from the darkness, finally free from the clutches of the Heavenly Principles."

I'm sorry new dev team but who switched sides? Istaroth's role in both saving the Enkanomiyans who were slated to die by Phanes itself and then saving Inazuma in a direct rebellion against the principles clearly shows she was working against Celestia. Now thanks to this video she was acting on a whim to pass the time (time which she controls mind you) and it's Asmoday who went rogue?

The only action she took that might not have been against the principles was the creation of Venti who was sent to kill the Anemo Dragon Sovereign and provisional first Anemo Archon Decarabian. However though this worked towards the principles it could be suggested that Decarabian's trapping his people behind the wind barrier was akin to Ei's trapping hers behind her storm barrier in her attempt be to "nearest unto heaven." Therefore even by replacing this member of the preliminary Seven, she was still acting on behalf of humanity. In fact she would go on to assist Venti in running his Mondstadt.

Ronova wasn't revealed until the new dev team took over full creative control with Natlan therefore there isn't much that should be inconsistent though the new devs have already shown they can even come into conflict with their own established lore.

In this case we see the current Ronova as someone cold and inconsiderate. This is also the Ronova shown in Act V who was a stickler for the rules which Capitano used to undermine her in his act of revenge against the principles. The cutscene even depicted her displeasure over losing as the Eldritch eye in the sky glared at him. However only a few months prior we had Act IV and Yohualtecuhtin would explain that Ronova was the one to help create the Night Kingdom that saved Natlan. She was also the one to make a deal with Xbalanque which gave them the unfathomable privilege to not have an actual Archon in charge of the nation thus the Seven don't actually exist. Instead for Natlan alone, a lineage of humans assumed the role of "Archon" and somehow didn't trigger Celestia's wrath despite one of the purposes of the Archon War having been to establish seven rulers of each of the seven nations. Ronova even casually stated that she'd lie and say her powers were somehow stolen from her if Phanes did unleash its fury.

Yet only Asmoday went rogue?

Side Note: Her anime girl design has also led to unfortunate ideas that she is the god depicted by Ei's statue. However there has been no connection between any of Ronova's abilities or feats to what Ei was using the statue for. Ei's statue was a reference to the real world Guanyin a bodhisattva described as having a thousand eyes and arms through which she could guide humanity. This is directly referenced by the Act V title of the Inazuma Archon Quest, Omnipresence Over Mortals and by a line from Scaramouche in the same act. However the original story was altered and the statue never came into play. I really hope the new devs won't conflate a statue referencing Guanyin with a character with the title Ruler of Death because Guanyin represents mercy and assists women with childbirth so that would be very disrespectful especially when there's literally a Ruler of Life in this group.

That Ruler of Life also happens to be the one we have the least information about. Also a product of the new devs, the only direct information we have about her is that she created Egeria to replace Neuvillette after the war against the sovereigns. However given the other lore related to Egeria and Neuvillette it could even be seen that she played a role in Neuvillette's prophesized resurrection which would ultimately save Fontaine, once again in opposition to Phanes.

And then thanks to Paralogism the previously unrelated lore of Rhinedottir and Albedo finding the Heart of Naberius suddenly became her heart. This means she, the ruler over Life was somehow killed during the Cataclysm or grievously wounded such that only her heart remained and thus once Rhindottir consumed it, she became the physical body of Naberius. Naberius is depicted as previously looking like Furina/Egeria and now relegated to blue and white accents on Rhinedottir's body, changing some of the gold accents to blue when she speaks through her.

What a mess. So if all of this is true then the only shade to not have any rebellious feats to her name is Asmoday the one who is switching sides. Is actually adhering to the principles the act of rebellion?

Well she is the "Ruler of Space" so let's circle back to her with this space in the topic.

This next idea is speculation at this point but does add to this topic. In v3.3 we ended the Inversion of Genesis Quest by encountering Nicole Reeyn. In English, Japanese and Chinese her voice sounded very similar to their respective Sustainers. (I haven't heard the Korean.) This was changed in Fontaine where for example, Nicole no longer has the same speech pattern as Tao Dian's Herrscher of the Void that she had in Inversion. And perhaps even more evidently, in the English dub the Nicole in Fontaine has an inconsistent accent that sporadically appears during her lines which wasn't the case in Sumeru.

Again the new dev team gained creative control by the Fontaine Archon Quest so it stands to reason they also changed this story direction from the Sumeru run. However let's put a pin in this.

As a result of the previously available information, I'd actually come up with a few theories about the shades, the Sustainer and how their stories would play out. Considering the fact that the "Sustainer of Heavenly Principles" used to be the sole role and name of Asmoday since the game's launch and that none of the other shades related to this title, it stood to reason she wasn't a shade. Old theories about her ranged from her being the god of Celestia to being Paimon's true form. I personally had another theory:

Just like how we were told the Sustainer was dying, we were also told that some princess from a kingdom of light was deceived by the kingdom of darkness into believing she was their queen. In terms of Gnosticism from which this game was heavily inspired, the kingdom of light would be the Ogdoad while the kingdom of darkness would be Earth under the rule of the Demiurge. Therefore this princess would be the fallen Aeon Sophia or the Acamoth. And as Venti would go on to say, the Traveler is meant to pick up where she left off. We know the Traveler is the Fourth Descender so it only makes sense that this princess was a Descender as well and if she was deceived into aiding rather than opposing the ruler of the kingdom of darkness, doesn't that sound like Phanes the First Descender defeating the Second Who Came and then brainwashing her into becoming say a sustainer for its heavenly principles?

Speaking of which Nicole is a name derived from the Greek Nike, Goddess of Victory. (and actually the Chinese for Nicole is literally Nike) Nicole Reeyn might actually be a reference to Nicole-Reine Lepaute and so if we look at Reine, it's French for queen. Someone who was victorious and a queen. Sounds like Nicole is related to this person who was deceived by the kingdom of darkness into thinking she was a reine and then going on to be victorious against two other equally powered individuals.

Side Note: It should also be noted that the twins were at full power when they fought her and it isn't likely a single shade of a Descender could so easily defeat two. However with the precedence of the First Descender having defeated the Second there's no reason not to believe the Second could defeat the Third and Fourth.

As someone brainwashed into believing she's the sustainer it doesn't seem likely she'd go rogue. However as the lore has already shown us, so far each of the other shades has gone rogue and the Heavenly Principles frowned upon all of their rebellious actions. The most prominent though would be Istaroth therefore if we are to believe a shade "switched sides" then it would be the very same one who brought it up in the new video: Istaroth.

Also given Naberius is now revealed to be female and a Furina lookalike - as if we needed more of those - it likely suggests the new dev team is not going to be doing anything with the Fischl story which also makes sense since as of Paralogism they seem to have concluded Albedo's story prematurely as well.

Side Note 1: The fact that they made Naberius look like Furina though does further reinforce that Egeria and Furina are two halves of the Archon Focalors and the Focalors' Divinity that we see in the Archon Quest is just Egeria.

Side Note 2: It might be interesting to note that Naberius is related to Cerebrus, the guard dog of the underworld. Just like how it doesn't make sense to conflate Guanyin with a Ruler of Death, I don't think it makes sense to have Cerebrus relate to a Ruler of Life. What's wrong with these devs? On the contrary, Naberius can either be depicted as Cerebrus or a three headed raven and thus Oz comes to mind, both being a raven and an attendant to someone calling themselves the ruler of the "Immernachtreich" or Land of Evernight. (Evernight relates to Enkanomiya which also goes by the name Tokoyonokoku or the Okinawan land of the dead.)

Finally in terms of the shades and Phanes there was another series of clues that I had theorized would lead us to another shade. There is a very prominent motif of seven in this game. Seven Archons, Seven Dragons, Seven Nations, Seven Mountain Treatises, Yae's Seven Glamours, Ochkanatlan's Well of Seven Flames, Sacred Call of the Seven (the original translation for Genius Invokation) and so on. One seven motif in the real world is the Seven Classical Planets of which we'd already have the Sun and Venus in the form of Phanes and Istaroth. The other planets are Mercury, the Moon, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. Of these we actually have several hints about Mercury. In We Will Be Reunited we were told about a God of Thieves. Mercury or Hermes is the God of Thieves. He is also a God of Travelers which Paimon had alluded to at one point. And to cover all the bases Hermes has been syncretized with Egypt's Thoth and Anubis and Babylonia's Nabu and Ninurta. We actually have a Hermanubis and Nabu in Sumeru's lore and as it turns out, this links the Classical Planets of Mercury, the Moon and Saturn thus leaving us with only Mars and Jupiter unaccounted for with two remaining shades.

Ok considering all of this, how might we fix this story? Well the new devs don't really seem to care all that much about lore consistency so we may be able to continue using the already established structure and just swap out the roles that have already been confirmed. In this case that would be switching out Asmoday from her role as Second Descender to that of a shade and right now the only available shade role would be Mercury aka Paimon. This could actually work even in Asmoday's new capacity as the Ruler of Space given Mercury's well known power of speed through his winged sandals and helmet that allows him to travel across space with ease. It would also work towards this idea that she had gone rogue as Mercury is also well known as a trickster god. With Asmoday as the new Mercury shade to Istaroth's Venus and Phanes' Sun (and Ronova might represent Mars given her only known actions were based in Natlan the Nation of War and the devastating war that was the Cataclysm) this elevates Paimon from her shade status into the Second Descender which surprisingly works in part towards a fringe theory I recently had.

As for Asmoday going rogue, we can suggest from even the video that she wasn't the only one. Who was the one to even bring it up? Istaroth who we know went rogue according to all of her previous actions. There are actually theories suggesting that both Istaroth and Asmoday played a role in the sibling's encounter with Direidyth in the recent Dainsleif Quest which distracted her long enough to take her out of play while Celestia smote Khaenri'ah. Therefore Asmoday might be covering for Istaroth's role in opposing the principles. In this case the only truly loyal shade would be Naberius since her only action so far has been to create Egeria to replace Neuvillette in accordance with the principles.

Side Note: Naberius as the most loyal shade might make her the Jupiter shade and one closest to her creator. This could actually fit with previous depictions of Zeus in the Hoyoverse. In Honkai Gakuen, Zeus was killed by the higher god Thanatos. Naberius is the only shade to be dead in the present, her heart being plucked out at some point during the Cataclysm and now devoured by Rhinedottir so she could take her place. This extends to her creation since Egeria also died during the same Cataclysm and became the Amrita which would end up allowing Simurgh to protect Sumeru from the Abyss using the Pari while Egeria's divinity would go on to sacrifice herself in order to reempower Neuvillette to stop the Fontaine prophecy.

However with Naberius dead, Rhinedottir is clearly not loyal either and she even went so far as to state that she'd continue pursuing ways to overcome the principles if Naberius wasn't stopping her. Therefore at this point none of the shades are honestly working under the principles. Ronova might even be hinting that they will work within those bounds but for the purposes of pushing humanity to go beyond their limits. (the video is even called the Gods' limits)

The only issue with this fix is that it takes away from the stakes the old devs had created. As Rhinedottir suggested, ultimately all of these shades will be devoured by Phanes when it returns. Back then Paimon would have joined them thus making the fight much more complex as killing Phanes would kill Paimon. (I suggested multiple endings for this game as a result.) However given the personal grudge both Traveler twins have against Asmoday, it'll be pretty easy to choose to butcher Phanes without a second thought. Simultaneously the fight against the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles would have been more complicated if it was revealed that she was simply brainwashed by Phanes into antagonizing the twins. She's a victim. However why would Paimon as the Second Descender even come to blows with the Traveler? So if it's revealed that she's the fallen Second Descender, they'd just further their resolve to fight Phanes who had once separated them. In other words we would have gone from two complicated confrontations to a single very straightforward and highly motivated final battle against an unsympathetic villain.

This could be mitigated if it's revealed that the Five Sinners are actually not so malevolent and their actions were against an Abyss corrupted Khaenri'ah. It would explain why Surtalogi can remove the curse of immortality yet bafflingly chose to leave all of his people cursed. It would also make Rhinedottir sympathetic thereby putting her in Paimon's old role once Phanes absorbs the shades. And it would even put the shades and Phanes itself into a better light since their reasons for targeting Khaenri'ahns that seemed to be innocent would become justifiable.

The video also revived the old theory about Paimon being Asmoday. If the new devs used that idea it may also add complexity to the story but only if the twins are made to be petty. This is a growing trend in many modern stories though, for example Marvel's Civil War where despite knowing that Bucky was brainwashed, Tony Stark still fully intended to murder the man for his role in assassinating his parents. But there's already an issue which pervaded this theory even back in its inception: If Paimon is just the diminished form of Asmoday who was a major player in the Cataclysm, why wouldn't any of the Seven recognize her? They have no trouble recognizing Buer who they've never met or who the current Pyro Archon is despite them both changing frequently and being human proxies and not actual gods. And if not them then you'd at least assume the Traveler's sibling would notice their dearest family traveling with their sworn enemy. The sibling has all their memories restored and rather than warning the Traveler about siding with Dainsleif, you'd think it'd be much more important to them to make sure the Traveler wasn't hanging out with the very same being that separated them in the first place.

And there's another snag to this idea:

During Wriothesley's Character Quest both the Traveler and Paimon touch a crystal that induces sad memories for them. We see exactly what those sad memories are for the Traveler; it's their separation by the Sustainer. Paimon is also shown to be distraught so it stands to reason that if she is Asmoday then she too would have seen this memory. If that's the case you'd think there'd be some hint of her behaving differently towards the Traveler for the remainder of the quest or at the very least a momentary distance between them. There is not. In my theory that Paimon was a shining shade though she could have easily seen some action she'd once performed which was unrelated to the Traveler and too distant for her to properly process in her current diminished state.

And of course the final nail in this coffin if we circle all the way back to the starting point of this topic, is that Paimon isn't dying. There have been no hints that Paimon's life is in jeopardy but it was flatly stated that Asmoday's was. Unless the new devs also ignore that lore, this idea is already disproven.

As for Nicole Reeyn, my theory was that because the Sustainer is dying, if she is the brainwashed form of the Second Descender then it stands to reason it's the mind-controlled body that is dying while the consciousness is finally able to free itself from it due to its weakened state. This consciousness of the Second Descender would be "Nicole Reeyn" and even in very recent lore she still seems to fit a Second Descender more than a shade. Skirk has a voiceline that Nicole had witnessed the death of a species and then became human. We know she isn't human so it could just be a manifestation of her consciousness. The "species" mentioned would be the dragons/gods/angels/seelies/elementals she sided with in the war against Phanes. Now in this interpretation "Nicole" might even take its true form as the female counterpart to Nicholas which comes from Greek Nikolaos meaning victory of the people. Given her current role in guiding the Traveler who in turn is guiding humanity towards a better fate, this would culminate in a "victory of the people" against the principles and thus the Second Descender's mission would have been accomplished.

With Asmoday now a shade though, the species mentioned would be shades so it no longer makes sense. However if we ignore that then a member of the Hexenzirkel being a shade isn't unprecedented thanks to Rhinedottir. So everything can remain the same with Nicole now being the consciousness of the dying shining shade Asmoday instead of the dying Sustainer. (But again her voice was changed for Fontaine so this probably isn't happening either. Perhaps instead she's the "angel" the voyager met and so her direct species died and now she and Paimon fill in the roles for that story.)

Let's review:

• Several pieces of older lore conflict with miHoYo's new Gods' Limits video. For example while Asmoday is stated to be switching sides, the previous lore suggests that only Asmoday has remained loyal while each of the three other shades have rebelled before.
• However with the lack of attention to lore and with Asmoday now a shining shade we could rework the original lore to swap her place with Paimon thus Paimon becomes the Second Descender while Asmoday is the shade representing Mercury who is both a rebellious trickster and can travel through space with ease.
• Istaroth is the one to suggest Asmoday switched sides but from her lore she clearly also defied the principles. There are theories from the A Space and Time for You quest that suggest Istaroth and Asmoday were working together to have Direidyth meet the Traveler's sibling so they could still be in cahoots.
• The modifications to the story may simplify the sides. If Asmoday had been brainwashed then she's a victim and any future conflict against her would be morally gray but this doesn't exist if she's just an antagonistic shade. The complexity could be reintroduced by making Rhinedottir sympathetic.
• Paimon as Asmoday in a diminished form and having switched sides from the First to Fourth Descender conflicts with the fact that nobody recognizes her despite her major role in the Cataclysm. At the very least the Traveler's sibling would instantly recognize her as far back as We Will Be Reunited. And of course, she's not dying.
• Nicole Reeyn can be the "human" consciousness of the dying Sustainer in either version of the lore. Failing that, Paimon would still be the Second Descender while Nicole may be the angel she'd met.

The new video feels like this new dev team has been watcing a few too many Isekai anime. Stories like Konosuba, Failure Frame and Death March all have a similar feel to this video. Record of Ragnarok fits too. Once upon a time we were told that Celestia adored the humans compared to the Dragon Sovereigns who came before. It had recreated the world "for our sake." Now it's just your typical uncaring gods lording over humanity with arbitrary rules for the sake of having a motivating conflict to drive the story.

It is annoying that Genshin's story is no longer consistent with the early lore but I suppose it is also fun to come up with these fixes. And at the end of the day we still have Amphoreus to show us what Genshin could have been, at least for a little while longer.

PS: I knew I forgot something.

There is still one other possibility that could help fix the damage. What if the shades aren't really created by Phanes? I think there is an argument to be made that the Enkanomiyans got it wrong and the shades themselves are separate beings to Phanes. In this way Asmoday could both be the Ruler of Space under the principles but also a Descender. In terms of the Hoyoverse, Gakuen has a pantheon of "Descenders" in a place called Babel. Gakuen itself has the "Descender" the Lord of Myriad Realms who was the one to create Thanatos but these other beings appear when they want as well.

And it doesn't have to be this clean either. We could say that the more terrestrial aspects of life and death are actual shades created by Phanes but the higher planes of space-time aren't thus also reinforcing the idea that Istaroth and Asmoday have both gone rogue, Asmoday because she's the Second Descender whose brainwashed vessel is dying thus freeing her consciousness and Istaroth.... I'm not sure about her yet. In terms of Amphoreus she's set to play a major role in fixing that world though. Oronyx is the subordinate of the Aeon Fuli who only took interest in the world that Nous created. This is setting up March 7th as the true demigod of time. Nanook would then fill in the role of the Sea of Quanta who wants to destroy the world. So maybe though not quite a Descender herself, Istaroth is another type of agent sent by the Imaginary Tree to oppose Phanes and that's why she has so many disobedient actions in her repertoire.

Topic originally created on July 13th, 2025.