So here is the rest of my conversation with a fellow who thinks that America should ban and confiscate everyone's guns and then pay people a bounty to turn in their neighbors for owning guns. You can read part I here
I am sure I didn't use the term "Trumpian logic".
It was a little attempt at humour. With Trump being a science denier where climate change is concerned unfortunately. Naturally, with him being on the take from the NRA, I thought it quite ironic to use the expression.
Trump is a science denier on climate change? what did he say about it?
It's not sane to think that the penalties for gun possession determine how safe a country is.
I didn't say that. For example, a gun might come in handy when in the middle of a bona fide warzone.
For the young poor men who are the bulk of victims and perpetrators of gun homicides the inner city neighborhoods where they are concentrated are more dangerous for them than soldiers in a warzone, yet they are forbidden from legally carrying arms in most cases by racist gun permitting restrictions.
I just don't think in peace time, all other things being equal, a person should have a need for such a weapon.
Let me get this right, these are peace times? The UK is not at war anywhere? The US is not? No country on earth has people chanting "Death to America!" in the streets?
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phew, I guess you can all draw Mouhammed now right?
And the best way to ensure minimal gun ownership in a relatively safe society are laws prohibiting it. Stiff penalties being the next logical step to keep them out of the hands of the criminal underworld.
We already have that, unfortunately some people think it's racist to actually enforce them. What's funny is that relative to London, where guns and now knives are banned, NYC is much safer in terms of your chances of being a homicide victim, so why isn't it working for you?
There's got to be a lot less collateral damage in the UK where the majority of police are still thankfully unarmed than in your nation where one stray bullet from one trigger happy 'cop' could mean It's goodnight, Vienna for you.
Cops in fact are a lot more dangerous than CCW holders. On the other hand you don't have to worry about one pushing you out of the way as they run away from a van or gun wielding terrorist like in the UK huh?
Fewer suspects who'd have later been deemed totally innocent getting shot dead, too. Don't your cops wrongfully kill a black guy every other week?
I don't know, this cops killing black people is a tangent of yours and a claim of yours, feel free to cite it.
What's with all the kneeling at the NFL?
It's pretty last year, the NFL wants to go out of business.
The most unsafe countries in the world almost all have very strict civilian gun control laws.
I've never looked at that.
Science deniers never look at that. If you are not a denier then you should check it out, Mexico has very strict gun laws as does Honduras.
But I do have a degree in zoology which was still a science last time I checked.
Apply the scientific method to assessing the threats then, compare it to say DVT and varicose veins in terms of deaths.
Very sane people from all over the world sacrifice everything to come live in America every day.
I'm not arguing that there aren't worse places to live around the world than the US. Some very sane people wouldn't touch your nation with a barge pole, I'm sure you can appreciate, though.
They must not be that sane to believe whatever drivel they hear on the news.
Whilst the land of opportunity would never be the place for me, some are more easily seduced. It's a basic life choice, isn't it?
Yup, some people choose to live in a place where they can make basic life choices like being able to choose to speak freely and/or bear arms. Others prefer to not have those rights and to complain that there are not enough police to keep them safe.
There are pros & cons in just about every decision we make.
Being run over by a tank nearly always proves fatal. You've not got tanks on your streets - yet. Any idea when Trump's having his little parade where he gets to pretend like soldiers saluting him means something?
So let me get this right, Trump is going to turn loose tanks on the populace and also we should give all of our guns to the government? That sounds a little crazy, mate.
People who are afraid of gun owners are bad at math.
I've forgotten a hell of a lot of the maths I learnt 30 years ago. But I was in the top set (that took the qualification a year earlier than the rest of the year - same for English). People who don't fear guns have kevlar-coated rocks for brains, I'd be more likely to argue.
Why would someone good at math be afraid of a legal gun carrier who is less likely to shoot them than a member of the general population? It's almost all criminals who don't lawfully own guns who murder people. In fact it's mostly criminals who have committed gun crimes before, thus the solution to further reducing our historically low gun crime is to address habitual gun offenders, not pass more restrictions on folks who comply with the law.
CCW holders commit violent crimes at a fraction of the rate of the general population and a small fraction of the rate of police officers.
Aren't we in the very infancy of CCW?
Nope, it's legal in all 50 states, except of course Vermont never required any permit to either open carry or conceal carry any type of firearm, one of the safest states in the Union. Too bad you didn't check out my link with this map:
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or your wouldn't have to ask. What color is that map turning? Green means they will not require a permit to purchase or carry a firearm.
When everybody wants a CCW (bragging rights and all that), you'll likely get a worse class of CCW permit holder on average. Which will likely be reflected by an upsurge in their respective unlawful discharge / violent crime rates.
Nope, the states in green include some of the safest in the Union.
Elementary maths?
In America as long as you avoid a handful of inner city neighborhoods and don't choose to shoot yourself your chances of being shot are less than in Europe or Canada.
Your guns do work, don't they? I'd love to see some fake news stats backing that claim up.
Sure, check out the murder rate in NH some time. Or check out this leftist source:
http://freakonomics.com/2013/02/14/how-to-think-about-guns-full-transcript/
So its sane to live in London where guns are banned and the homicide rate is higher than NYC if you are concerned for your life?
London's going through a bad spell. NYC, a good one?
We are making America great again, your murder rate is rising. Those new knife laws ought to take care of that though right?
We keep getting these crap right-wing governments that love tax cuts and cuts to the essential services as a result. We need police. You need to do away with your guns. It's like algebra and trig, surely?
LOL, too bad you can't carry a cop in your pocket, then you would be safe. Why would we do away with our guns when more guns correlates with less gun homicides? of course correlation is not causation, guns probably didn't cause the decline but they also did not cause an increase.
Or do you just fear being shot but not being stabbed?
I don't really fear being stabbed. Knife crime is much the resort of juvenile delinquents. I left that demographic behind a long time ago.
So is gun crime in the US for the most part, mostly because we choose to prohibit drugs and so the kids selling them shoot each other over turf and other disputes. So you are not a black teenage male in Compton who is in a gang? Then sorry buddy, your chances of being shot in America are close to zero.
Of course, I'd hate to die that way, but I do feel it somewhat unlikely. Another way - I've never in all my life seen anyone openly carrying a knife as a weapon / agent of threatening behaviour.
Ok, I've never seen anyone besides a cop openly carrying a pistol, is there a point? Why would a holstered pistol be threatening? I used to carry a knife when I had to contend with juvenile delinquents, I am not sure what point you are trying to make.
Except the one time I got chased by a meat cleaver wielding restaurateur through what turned out to be a fairly minor misunderstanding. But that was in Japan.
How come their strict knife laws didn't prevent that?
Whilst both are cowardly to a degree, if your assailant has to be pretty much in your face, you can always be pretty sure when an attack might just be around the corner. And take behavioural actions to minimise such a threat quite easily. On the other hand, I just found the longest confirmed kill sniper distance to be just over THREE AND A HALF KILOMETRES. Over two miles??? The right equipment, a steady arm and good conditions and the most yellow-bellied of cowards could pick you off.
Would you really prefer those kinds of odds?
The odds of that happening to you in America are close to zero. So yeah I'll take my chances with that.
One last thing that needs covering: The US with its bizarre constitution hardly precludes knife crime. I'm sure gun-crime is very much the crime of choice for most miscreants but surely you do still have some - however little - knife crime?
I am sure I never said guns being legal or the constitution precludes knife crime. More people are killed with knives than rifles in the US. What has that got to do with the fact that London which bans the carry of guns and knives has more homicides than NYC which does not?
I find a lot of the pro-gun lobby seem to feel they'll never die from a knife injury whilst inside the US as if they possess some kind of immunity conferred by gun ownership legislation.
I have never heard anyone say they will never die from a knife injury sounds like you seem to feel that but what is it based on? who said that?
And that assumption has to be patently false.
It sure is a weird straw man.