Paul: [00:00:06] This Bigfoot fella.
Matt: [00:00:10] Now everybody's heard of him.
Paul: [00:00:12] Yeah maybe a few people have even seen him. I haven't seen him. Doesn't mean I don't believe in him.
Matt: [00:00:19] I've never seen him either.
Paul: [00:00:20] I don't know about you but my first memory goes back to about 1974 or 75 when I saw the Patterson film on television and they only showed it one time and I saw that and it had just captivated me ever since. To me, it was the most fantastic thing I think I've ever seen on television period.
Matt: [00:00:49] I think it still remains that way for me. Yeah, I've seen a lot of UFO footage I've seen. Supposed chupacabra footage, of just all kinds of things but to me the Patterson-Gimlin film has always remained the top echelon of footage that I've ever seen, that's concerning anything paranormal.
Paul: [00:01:15] I agree. When I first saw it I was like I wanted to see it again and it was years later when I finally did see it again. But even at that time when I was 5 maybe 6 years old and I saw that it was just it was unbelievable to me because I knew it wasn't a put it that way and to see something special is that it is rare or something like that. And I'm not even so sure I totally understood what it was but it was the greatest thing I had seen. And I agree with you I do believe it is probably the single greatest film, photo, however you want to put it as evidence for the existence of this thing. As lifelike as the thing was and is for some people they claim it to be a hoax and that it was this way and it was that way, I never actually looked at it that way. I never felt that it was a hoax. It looked too real. And by that time you had seen so many monkeys and so many people in a monkey suit that you knew what that looked like. Some of the Hollywood people even couldn't do the artwork like they couldn't do that - that makeup that way.
Matt: [00:02:31] They've talked to several special effects makeup artists in Hollywood from around that time and all of them said the same thing. Sure we could duplicate that now. There is no way that could have been any type of special effects costume or anything remotely close to being special effects for the time period that it was actually filmed.
Paul: [00:02:55] Right. I don't think it was because of - I think about it at the time. I don't know. I guess that might have been before Planet Of The Apes, wasn't it?
Matt: [00:03:05] I believe it was. Yes.
Paul: [00:03:07] So and that for itself was the makeup and that was very well but still not the same.
[00:03:16] Not even close. Something I've always said with it is anytime I hear people talking about how they're able to debunk it... wait for it. I'm going to say it. Bullshit!
Paul: [00:03:32] It wasn't that and I know there has been a lot of hoaxes involving Bigfoot since then. I don't believe that one was.
Matt: [00:03:40] I don't either.
Paul: [00:03:42] When you look at some of the retouched frames of it where they've actually studied everything and when you can see parts of the body moving that you know especially on the I think it's on the right side you see the one bump that raises up on the thigh where you can definitely tell that - that it was under assumed it would not have appeared that way. I'm thinking that it's not a suit and that it was actually real and it's interesting how people can look at stuff like that. They just they refuse to believe anything no matter what they see. You know sometimes your eyes will tell you lies and other times they won't. I think in that case I think they're eyes are telling you the truth when you see that.
Matt: [00:04:26] I think that there's been far too much evidence which actually supports the entire sighting. Really.
Paul: [00:04:33] Right. And you've done a lot of research on how these things are being supported in the country, for North America, basically. When some people are saying that there can't be that many of them there's, you know, there's not enough land for each one of them or this or that or whatever. And I remember some of the stuff that you wrote was you know it made a lot of sense as to what you what you were saying at the time.
Matt: [00:05:01] I think a lot of it just simply comes down to what people want to believe. I think that people want to argue the point. You and I have talked about different things before when it comes to this and we see a lot of the same thing with people. You have instances where people say they may come out with an image of something say a Bigfoot. They present it to the public and people say is that typical. All you'd give us is a grainy old photo and that isn't in focus very well. And then at the same time when some researcher or somebody, a person say out in the woods, finally does have some type of clear HD footage or an image of it then of course right away the debunkers go back to, "Well no, that's too clear." Well, what the fuck do you want? Which way do you want it? You know you can't have it both ways. But that's exactly their argument with it and it just really just aggravates me.
Paul: [00:06:12] And that's the way that's the way a lot of the people are. They refuse to believe no matter which evidence you present them they automatically think well the picture is not good the picture is too good, you know. That - that looks like somebody who a suit. You know that's their Uncle George or something. I don't know but it's just a way a lot of the people looked at that. You know I think a lot of what it comes down to is that you know people think that monsters don't exist.
Matt: [00:06:43] There's a great new show that's on called, "Extinct or Alive," with a biologist that travels all over the world and basically he makes a career out of finding species that have been checked off the endangered list as being completely extinct. And he goes out and he finds them. Well to me there is absolutely no difference whatsoever between a situation like that and finding Bigfoot. It's just common sense really that this animal can remain out there a lot of times people are very unfamiliar with the actual terrain and topography of the United States in itself. People don't understand that there is more than enough room out there. That's always been one of the debunkers biggest arguments is because of the encroachment of man. Man has not encroached that damn much into the territory of these creatures they really haven't. And you were talking about the research that I've done and to give everybody an example: according to indexmundi.com as of 2017, United States total forestation is 33.9%. Now one of the things you've got to keep in mind that there are 3.5 million square miles or 2,240,000,000 million acres in the United States. So, if you use those figures and if my math is right on this, it breaks down to 1,168,500 square miles, still covered in a wooded area. Then once you start getting down to how the species are considered to be on the endangered list. What are the qualifications to get on the endangered species list? And there's a little rule out there that was determined in 1980 and it was determined by doctors Franklin and Dr. Soule. It's called the 50/500 rule. Just kind of paraphrasing what the 50/500 rule is: if you have 50 animals of the same species in existence they will be able to continue on. The problem there becomes you will eventually you're going to have some inbreeding because there's only 50 of them. However, if you jump up to the 500 rule and you take a look at what the 500 rule is it's basically the same thing. If you have five hundred of any particular species they can survive. And guess what the amount of inbreeding goes to zero. Now think about that only 500 of these animals of any species and they have 1,186,000 plus square miles. That's a hell of a lot area for only 500 creatures. By the time you break that down it comes out each one of them would have something like the state of Delaware, that I compared it to, they would have the entire state of Delaware to walk around. Now think about that if you are a Bigfoot researcher and you walk into the woods you have to cover an entire state by yourself more or less. I don't care how many fucking researchers you get in the woods at any given time you have to cover an area the size of Delaware. And now you're talking about a creature which has shown phenomenal intelligence walking around and being able to move around freely in that space. Do you honestly think it's not going to be able to avoid detection? I mean come on. There's just no way that we can possibly just categorically deny that a creature like this exists when the simple mathematics show that yes it could. I'm only talking to the United States here. Anybody that’s ever pulled out a map and looked at Canada or how the forestation is in Canada. Holy shit. I mean come on. What's it not going to go to Montreal? Come on. The entire rest of that country is trees its all forest. It's a very dense forest. That's plenty of room. So the idea of whether or not this species could survive in North America anybody it says that there is no way because of it not having the room. I automatically have to call bullshit because 500 of them could exist in the United States alone and we would never find them. Let alone if you are taking the entire scope of all of North America the math does not add up. It's like the people saying that the math doesn't qualify for aliens being out in space. Come on.
Paul: [00:11:49] Well I mean for me. Yes you know you don't know if there's 500 of them you don't know if there's 5000 of them you don't know if there's 5 million of them. You don't know how many there are. You know. Yeah, you're right. When you when you've got to cover a space the size of a small state you're not going to find it unless you just happened to accidentally stumble upon one.
Matt: [00:12:12] Which has been every encounter that has ever happened. People accidentally stumble on them. The Patterson-Gimlin film. They weren't out looking for it. It found them. So that's how it goes.
Paul: [00:12:25] Right. And I think that's the only way you're going to see it is if is if you happen to be in the right place at the right time and stumble across one you know because they're certainly not going to come looking for us. Because they know they know what we're all about and I'm sure they don't want to get shot any more than you or I do. You know they're not going to do that. If they happen to come into a civilized area I'm sure it's there - they're there for a reason. They may be looking for something. But, no you're going to have to go out in the way you're going to have to look for them is just it's impossible. You can't cover that much area either by yourself or with a hundred other people you just can't do it.
Matt: [00:13:10] It is literally the proverbial needle in the haystack at that point.
Paul: [00:13:15] It is. It really is. And you won't find them. I mean for one if you went out with 100 people, first of all, they're going to know you're coming and they're going to run the other way. So if you go out with five people but you're not going to cover enough area.
Matt: [00:13:29] No.
Paul: [00:13:30] And I'm sure people have gone out and tried to find and tried to get them to react to them being there and you know maybe that maybe these things are smarter than what we anticipate. They're not they're not dumb they're not dumb animals. Maybe they, you know, they maybe they have evolved to a certain point and stopped. But I just don't. I mean you know you're not you're not dealing with you know some sort of animal that doesn't have any idea of what it's doing. Nobody's ever found them. Well yeah nobody has and nobody probably will until technology comes along that allows you to search vast areas with one set of eyes. That's just not there. Maybe it will be someday but it's not right now.
Matt: [00:14:17] I don't know if I ever told you or not. My great-grandfather had an encounter with one. It was during the early 1900s in southern Missouri. He owned a watermelon farm and he was going down to the sand flats with his team of horses and his wagon. And when they got down to the sand flats all of a sudden his horses stopped and they reared up. That's when he saw it. It walked out in front of him and walked out to about the middle of the trail and it stopped and it turned and looked at him. By that point he had pretty much I guess shitting himself would probably be an understatement. But, he reached down and he picked up his rifle and he drew down on it according to his words. He said he had a dead shot at it but when he looked at it he said The face looked so human its eyes looked so human that he just could not pull the trigger. He eventually lowered the gun it turned its head back around and continued on its way. That was an old legend that happened within my family. A rather interesting story, that I thought he had enough detail to it that he had actually mentioned the eyes being so human-like.
Paul: [00:15:44] Right. And some people have said that some of them, some of them have said that the eyes are - they do have a human quality and the rest of the body has human quality but yet it still has primate qualities as well. It's hard to tell what's what when it comes to these things. I mean until somebody actually gets their hands on one or they're able to get one in captivity. It's really hard to tell what is what with them. You know some people say that yeah the face looks a lot more human than it does ape. Some people would say that even the teeth resemble more human than an ape and some people have said it's more of a cross between a primate and what people say is compared to be caveman or something of that with the you know the protruding eyebrow that you know runs across the skull that is more of a bony type of forehead like that than what humans have or even what apes have for that matter and most people have seen what caveman's were allegedly to look like.
Matt: [00:16:42] There is an old Native American legend and I really wish that right now I could remember which tribe it was that has this legend. But the legend more or less describes a group of Indians. These Indians had decided to abandon the current path that Indians were facing at the time they decided to travel into the woods to concentrate on the old ways and to enlighten themselves. They are the ones who evolved into the Sasquatch which I always thought was a rather interesting story and legend that's been around for several hundred years that was told generation after generation. Within certain tribes.
Paul: [00:17:38] I think they're the ones that really if this does exist I think they're the group of people that know whether it does or doesn't.
Matt: [00:17:46] There are far too many tribes that have legends of the Sasquatch they go back and of course it's not only here in the United States either. You also have many different cultures throughout the world and small islands that you would think would never have anything like this but sure enough, they have legends about it.
Paul: [00:18:06] And the Native Americans have had their legends of this for how many hundreds of years.
Matt: [00:18:12] Just recently there were bones that were discovered here in North America dating back about 140000 years. So guess what. That just kind of threw off the timeline that archaeologists have thought about the United States, to begin with. In fact, there were people there were here that long ago. So when you take into consideration like that and then like you said we have hundreds of years of documented evidence throughout legends and things like that. Yeah. This is something I think that people really need to take a look at.
Paul: [00:18:49] Yeah. I mean they really do. Whether or not people will or won't. But a lot of that really needs to be looked at broken down and studied more. Do people just not even care to do any kind of research on a lot of this stuff anymore?
Matt: [00:19:03] I think a lot of it is. Again this comes down to me to the religion of science. Yes, I call science a religion because that is exactly what it has become. Well, now people who are taking a step back and taking a look at everything are realizing that science is not as good as what people have made it out. There are discrepancies within science those discrepancies have never been able to be solved. They may very well go, never having been resolved. This is one of those things that science says "no, it doesn't exist," and consequently you have a lot of people saying, "well science said it doesn't exist. So, therefore, mustn't exist." Well yeah, it can. It's just a simple fact. Because science tells you so. Now to me one of the clearest indicators that I can ever tell anybody to take a look at when it comes to whether or not science knows everything about all of these different species. Take a look at our oceans. We know less than 5 percent of our own oceans. Can you imagine how many species are still yet to be found in the ocean. I personally believe that there are things like megalodons which are still alive in our oceans. The simple fact is because they've learned a different way of adaptation. I to use a big scientific word here that they love to throw around - they evolved! So consequently who's to say megalodons simply don't live deeper now they live in a more isolated environment because of the encroachment of man. So therefore they go to a different place, same thing as a Bigfoot. The encroachment of man comes in Bigfoot simply gets up and he moves. It's not that hard to figure out that we don't know everything. Science likes to tell you that it knows everything but it really doesn't.
Paul: [00:21:21] No and if it doesn't have proof then, of course, it doesn't believe.
Matt: [00:21:24] Right.
Paul: [00:21:25] It's all about proof.
Matt: [00:21:27] It is and it isn't about proof when it comes to science. A very good example of that is the big bang theory. Science will sit there and they will preach all day long that yes there is a big bang. Ask them for the evidence. Yeah, they have a lot of evidence which points in that direction. However, they have no evidence whatsoever that it happened. Or if you want another example of it. It's human evolution. Show me the missing link. Show me how we came out of the water and started walking around and developed languages and built cities and everything else. Show me that evidence. But they don't have it. They like to preach the scientific aspect of needing evidence unless they need something to fit their narrative. And this is a great example of that Bigfoot does not fit their narrative. They don't care about it. Look how many scientists have been chastised for even considering the possibility of a creature like Bigfoot. But yet we find species every single day that are either newly cataloged or were removed from the catalog for being extinct and somebody finds one and we have to suddenly put it back into the catalog as being alive. This happens every single day folks.
Paul: [00:23:02] They just a lot of scientists they refuse to believe anything in the way that they've come across them the way they figure everything to be evolved to this that or whatever they're usually never right when it comes to stuff like that anyway. You and I neither one of us are scientists. Not that you don't have any kind of belief in science or whatever but just don't subscribe to those points of view and neither do I. I think there's a lot of stuff that is possible and if you're not going to believe in stuff that's possible. How can you believe stuff that's - that was impossible that turned out to be possible.
Matt: [00:23:37] So one of my biggest points real quick before we end this episode. We've known about them for a couple hundred at least if not maybe hundreds of years. That's chimpanzees. We've talked about chimpanzees all throughout the scientific community. We've mentioned about how chimpanzees have been noted doing this, this and this. Well, one of the big arguments about Bigfoot that you always hear scientists make are, "well there's never been any fossils recorded. There's never been any bones recorded, there's never been any scat found, any of this." Ok. I'm going to bring a point that they absolutely hate and that is we did not have chimpanzee fossil records until about 12 years ago. I think it was somewhere around there, 2006 when we finally discovered a chimpanzee bone in the wild. And this is something which science falls back on itself on, once again is trying to say while we have no fossilized record of it. OK fine but we also did not have a fossil record for chimpanzee until just recently. And in the grand scheme of things, in the entire existence of human evolution, 2006 was yesterday. That's what science is failing to tell everybody - that aspect of it.
Paul: [00:25:11] Science will never tell any aspect like that. Because then that just adds credibility to anything else. Aside from what they want to believe and what they would think everybody else should believe. When it comes to science. You know for me I'd rather the science community really just be left out of it until there is something that they can look at. And even then just to see how they dance around something to where they try to figure out that it's not real. Even though it's sitting right in front of them.
Matt: [00:25:41] I think until there's evidence is introduced in a new way. I don't ever see science becoming a big part of everything. And what I mean by that is a lot of times I think that when people go to scientists and they say, "hey can you analyze this?" The scientist is going to say, "Sure where do you get it from?".
Matt: [00:26:05] "Well I found it out in the woods. I'm a Bigfoot researcher," and right away I think that puts a negativity within that scientist's mind and the scientists says well I'm not going to find anything here. While you can not do your job properly if you have already predetermined the outcome within your own mind.
Paul: [00:26:26] Right. And anything like that as soon as you would mention anything that, yeah that's going to be the end of what they have they don't think anything of it then.
Matt: [00:26:34] However if the evidence is taken to them and you could say, "Uh, well, I own a ranch and I was out. I found some hair and I just want to make sure it doesn't belong to any coyotes. That might be coming after my cattle." All of a sudden the scientist is going to go into it with a scientific viewpoint and they're going to say hey I want to determine exactly what this is. So if it is something their perception is not going to be skewed.
Paul: [00:27:03] Right. You know it gets frustrating with all of that when it comes to anything that has to do with scientists. Everything's always good to be there always kind of prove everything. Do you not have any kind of an imagination? Is that what's lacking in these people? Because you didn't see it in a book. Does that mean that it's not, you know there's no possibility for anything?
Matt: [00:27:24] And that's the problem I think a lot of times. Scientists are actually looking at books that are outdated. The school books that we're giving people all the way through the doctorate programs. We're dealing with outdated books by the time they're getting their hands on them. It's really kind of a sad thing that a person sitting down at their computer using Google.com to look something up can find out something a lot faster more up to date than what a person actually going to school can do. Don't get me wrong I don't want some Google search engine person doing brain surgery on me. But at the same time, there's got to be a better way for these doctors to do this. There really does.
Paul: [00:28:12] Yeah. I think just think until there's actual proof of anything man I just think that everything is going to keep going the same way. And you know there may never be proof - or if there is or may never be good enough proof.
Matt: [00:28:24] You know what? For our friends to go out into the woods, weekend after weekend or any time that they can really keep up the good work guys. You guys really are doing a job that is very thankless in doing your research on Bigfoot. Because you're really swimming upstream as we all are. Whether we're researching Bigfoot, studying UFOs, investigating ghosts, it's a complete upstream swim that we are literally having to battle against science on.
Paul: [00:29:02] That battle is going to keep going on it's going to stop anytime soon.