SPS Governance Proposal - Don't Change PP Values

Going forward, would removing the 0.5x penalty also apply to the CA Black Foil cards, effectively making legendaries 50,000 PP? If that is the case, the move basically devalues the GFL Alpha and Beta (and Untaimed)... That would be a TERRIBLE move...

My understanding was always that modern cards have the penalty and cards no longer playable in modern don't. Otherwise modern cards are just second rate cards that will absolutely crash in value (not just monetary value) when they rotate out.

Also I would really recommend no negative logic in proposals. I mean it had to be clarified in the edit because it is weird to vote against a proposal not to have a change. ;)

This would kill the value of cards even more. We charge way too much from the shop as is, then watch value plummet during the lifespan in modern... then complain that value is not maintained (an impossibility). This would make a bad situation even worse. FFS.
Why on earth would anyone be OPPOSED to giving a modicum of actual utility value to rotating SPL assets? Esp in a way that does not affect the older editions? Regular foil CL cards are almost useless on land as-is when you factor in the production inefficiency... you need GFs to make it worth the DEC to even put them on land. A x .05 multiplier makes those newer RF cards absolutely useless on land. Maintaining a 1x floor for rotating cards is basically tossing players a few crumbs and a little less sand in the vaseline.

In my opinion, the fact that the Modern cards get a 50% nerf on their PP is a strong indicator that the plan was always to eliminate that nerf when they rotated out of Modern. Otherwise, the new Modern sets would have always been at 1 and the previous sets would have had bigger multipliers (Chaos=2xPP, Untamed=4xPP, etc). I was always under the impression that this would be the case.

If the team has been building and doing all of their calculations with this as their baseline, I don't think it would be a good idea to change the original plan.

As others have stated, if each new set continues to have discounted PP, then the future value of owning those cards after they leave Modern is basically nil. Other than a handful of meta cards, most of those cards will be worthless for anything other than burning once they leave Modern.

I don't see any reason to make Chaos Legion more valuable than successive sets. Especially considering there are literally still hundreds of thousands of Chaos Legion cards to burn through. Stick with the plan.

I am completely against this proposal. I think it is vitally important that, as cards rotate from modern, they have equal PP to Chaos Legion. Without removing the 0.5x penalty, it is conceivable that rotated modern cards will drop to valuations even LOWER than Chaos Legion since CL would always be preferred to rotated modern cards for double the PP. It would be disastrous for rotated modern cards to drop to market prices below CL and destroy their long-term value.

Not only is my vote a huge NO, I can only imagine the people who would want to vote YES for this proposal don't care about maintaining the value of modern cards.

"This proposal will determine if we'd like to stop the team from making that change and essentially maintain the baseline PP at 0.5x Chaos Legion card's PP value going forward."

IMO the baseline PP of Chaos Legion card's is x1 - when it was changed to x0,5 ?

Sorry I don't understand this:

"The purpose of this proposal is to address a recent announcement made by Hive account@yabapmatt that the team was planning to adjust the PP (land production points) of cards to match Chaos Legion once the sets rotate out of modern. "

IMO Chaos Legion is since a long time out of modern or why I am unable to use this cards in modern tournaments or modern ranked ?

The thing for me is when they launched BF with CA they stated they will give 5x bonus on land.

Well because of the set has 0.5x it actually is only 2.5x bonus and I find that oke as in my mind after a year or two they will be boosted to what was intended for land. Another reason to hold them.

For the rest I do not really have a strong opinion in this matter, i will adapt no matter what is decided.
Only all newer set will always have a penalty i do not like they always have a "penalty"

I've got full CL, RB and CA collections so... ADJUST THAT PP, HELL YEAH! Trololo. In reality - I don't care. Do what you think is best ;-)

Here's the major issue at hand:

You have a complex topic, with a ton of moving parts. The team, I'm sure, has spreadsheets flowcharts and everything else to keep track of what was said and when/where...

It is highly evident that despite what the team may have said or insinuated... that a lot of people believed that Rebellion Cards and beyond would have .5PP compared to CL post rotation.

For me personally, I believed this to be the case and don't remember ever hearing they would bump up post Rotation... In fact, I distinctly remember the opposite being said and that was a "Reason to stock on up on CL!! They're about to be OOP and every set going forward will be .5PP or reduced further to keep CL Value!!"

However, instead of arguing about what was/wasn't said... I am fully in support of the community making this decision together.

Pros:

Helps keep RB Value Post Rotation
Helps RB Owners

Cons:

Dilutes Land PP
Makes CL Cards worth a little less as Land Workers

Reality:

The original reason behind the PP Nerf was because everyone was worried about the PP dilution from sets like Chaos Legion - "In the future these cards will be worthless because there will be too much PP"!!

But check the data:

Avg CL GFL CC: ~ 1,500
Avg RB GFL CC: < 200

Honestly to me after reconsidering this issue and the implication... the team is saying this was something they were always planning to do, some of the community say they remember otherwise - I'd love to see some evidence pointing either way Hive account@clayboyn

However, in the end, here's what matters:

A. If the team DID state this somewhere and we have evidence that PP would bump post rotation - we should bump PP

It doesn't affect Land Production much and it was always "the plan" - I may have misheard, misremembered things... I'm human, this happens.

B. If the team DID NOT state this somewhere and we DO NOT have evidence that PP would bump post rotation - we should not bump PP

Gameplay wise - bumping PP for RB will have a negligible effect on Land PP, especially with the sets being DRASTICALLY SMALLER than CL.

IF we do go the "Remove .5PP Post Rotation", we should just get rid of it altogether because with BF and Land Cards the majority of cards aren't going to be efficient on land anyway.

Just to clarify a few things:

I'm running the proposal on behalf of Cryptomancer, he paid for it and approved it as written.

As to why:

• Some people feel that we should leave things as they currently are and not change them.
• Some people feel that the change isn't needed at all.
• Cryptomancer feels that we could break things if we start messing with the land calculations and that it would distract him from working on land 2.0.
• Matt said that the team was going to change them as originally intended (this was stated a long time ago in a Town Hall) and that if the community doesn't want the team to do that then we needed to pass a proposal saying not to do that.

For me personally:
I don't think this issue is worth fighting over. I don't feel strongly about it at all either way. I'm just running the proposal because several community members seemed to want it and it was paid for, so here it is.

Hopefully it'll put the issue to rest, if not someone else can run their own proposal or reach out and discuss it with me if they need help or something.

i think the they should have settled at the base PP to be the same as Chaos long before the cards were launched. now they are trying to make the rebellion stay expensive, this would also drive down more the prices of chaos in my view. I also think we need clarity on the future sets before that is done. like the current and future sets will also be treated the same ?

edit:

Voting for the proposal - so against the change to PP values - because of precedent of inflationary pressure.

With that said, if they decide to increase the 0.5x for cards after modern, they might as well just eliminate the 0.5x modifier while it’s in modern anyways.
Card values in modern aren’t dependent on production power - putting modern cards on land has plenty of opportunity cost. Eliminating the 0.5x modern adjustment will take out a little bit of the bad complexity without losing the good kind of complexity (aka strategy).

Land is already complicated enough, adding a “ideal time to redeploy your land assets” isn’t the fun kind of strategy.

Like I wrote before on Discord: “I can understand the PP remaining at 0.5 for CA and further, as the current and future sets have the Black foils for higher pp on land, but I cannot understand the rationale for Rebellion to remain at 0.5, something which will make it almost unusable on land after it phases out of Modern.”

Especially when it had been previously suggested by the team that all post-CL sets would have their pp unnerfed when they rotated out of Modern.

I’m voting against this proposal.

Adjusting the PP is the slippery slope and for me it would undermine the trust in the game. The Rebellion cards have a lot of play value and even 50% of the PP is good for land, especially if we manage to grow the community.

I was excited about losing the penalty, I was gonna buy rebellion cards now to keep for land.

Now, I guess I will not have a reason to.

I would love an idea to keep the value up in cards being rotated out, even if we don't want them on land. Maybe we can craft a PP boost by burning so many copies of the card that would give it a permanent status upgrade.

I honestly hope this fails, but if not, I hope we are given a reason to buy rotating out cards.